This article is a a slanted op-ed piece and should have been identified as such. Or is it a press release from Incredible Extractor? Rick is really reaching with his cons for CO2. Smoking solvent CO2 causes pneumonia? Reference? Some states require (or will require) residual solvent testing in concentrates and CO2 is not listed for any of them. All hydrocarbons have a limit and will fail your sample at the lab if they remain. Until states require residual solvent testing, anyone who smokes concentrates by hydrocarbon is taking their chances. Just say what you’re thinking: BHO is less expensive than CO2. That is about to change. CBE did a disservice by misrepresenting this article as fact. Reply
What was written was possibly, or conjecture, is what that says about pneumonia. That comment came from an internal science major I spoke to. Where’s the years of proof smoking co2? There isn’t. So it’s all conjecture at this point. The FDA says 5,000ppm for butane in food. Nobody is that high on residual residue. Colorado says 800ppm and I’ve never been close. Not a disservice. I’m a food extraction expert with 20+ years of extraction experience. Are you? Facts are what we search for please. Reply
I will also add; I started using co2 a few years back, the two largest name extractors. They were not as good. We sent one back. The other we sold it. Hydrocarbons work better! I’ve personally owned both and made s decision. Only then did I build a better mousetrap. That’s when I invented the incredible extractor. After see what’s best with my hands and eyes and pocketbook. It’s safe (read article) it’s better (read article) the FDA and my experts say the residual can be nominal and safe. I don’t understand..Why is that a bad thing? Reply
Co2 is defintly a safer extraction method. That is 100% fact. There is absolutely no potential to blow the roof off the building using a Supercritical CO2 extractor. I do agree butane creates a higher quality produ ct, but does the end justify the means. Reply
Completely wrong sir. There is much HIGHER pressures and more of a danger with co2 explosions. I’ve done both, I am an expert at this. I’m sorry but your statement is completely, unequivocally incorrect.
He said 100% safer way, just not true… co2 is higher pressures by far, up to 100psi for butane, up to 10,000psi supercritical co2. Remember we are talking machines that get so big they don’t fit in your front room, and the bolts that hold them together are as wide as your wrist. I’ve seen these machines in the ingredient industry and yes they can blow everything up, your whole house. I am not talking about where the pot industry is today but where we are heading. We will definitely be talking about HUGE machines soon as this industry grows. It will come from plants that already make them. Not these companies presently, unless they keep up with growth but then they compete with a whole different level of manufacturing. This is not new, but very old technology… co2 machines were used in dry cleaning in the past, huge machines. co2 is used still today for that and for ingredients for food. There’s a reason we use co2 and use hydrocarbons today in food, they work. Please everyone stop thinking we are just now inventing this, it already existed before you were born.
Rick, I LOVED your article. As always you come correct. I wanted to just point out one thing that I felt you should exclude from your findings(my opinion) Butane is a substance we as humans deal with on the daily, this is true. BUT is it relevant? Just because we already un-knowingly ingest it, does not mean(imho) that ingesting more should be of no concern. I felt that your findings and argument is well within strength without needing to further it with that particular fact. I too have 20+ years experience and I think you said it best when you referred to the whole process as a delicate balance between fact and religion. Without the religious side of it all I think the “art form” one acquires through countless process’ is either lost or non-existent. I have tasted MANY BHO processed waxes. I can say WITHOUT a doubt that the process can be mastered and even the most competent of connoisseur could become baffled with any kind of taste test. Myself I use Hex. Have since beginning. For me I have developed that “art form” I mentioned above. I get BEST results in potency AND return. For me, only thing that comes close is 99% Iso (alcohol). I was apprehensive about implementing a BHO extraction, but after reading your post I am forever changed and am now going to add BHO to my list of process’. Looking forward to your next article. Reply
Logan, Are you saying Freon is also good for extracting or are you speaking of that R-402, R22 stuff that is also Freon, I know, but its refined to be more environmentally friendly? Father was also a refrigeration mechanic I grew up going on ride-alongs to many a safeway! I got to learn about all the fuels used to keep all the yummy food I love cold/fresh. he taught me ALL about air flow and temperature manipulation that i use everyday in my lab.(my fancy word for grow room =p) Also designed my very first set up! Cool trade! Reply
Everyone in the C02 community seems to forget that their Super Critical and some of their Sub Critical Extractions will still have to be refined with SOLVENTS, like ISO, Hexane or Ethanol, for winterizing. You can can scream and yell all you want about being totally solvent-less, but we know! So get off your high horse about your solvent-less extraction process, We have all seen the beautiful yellow/golden goo that comes out of the C02 machines… which those of us in the industry know will have to be cleaned up using different types of solvents before it will be ready for consumption… Sadly it is the Fats, Waxes, Lipids, chlorophyll, and lots of other undesirables that get extracted during the Super critical process, less of that comes out in a sub-critical run but, never-the-less, you will still get higher quality products from the initial extraction using Butane than you ever will using CO2. Both extraction methods are capable of producing excellent products, the biggest difference to me is: mainly the cost, for around $3-5k you can get started with butane, propane or a combination of the two, on the other hand several of the CO2 machines we have looked at have been well over $200k More than a house costs in some cases… So other than price here are a few other differences you might not be aware of… CO2 machines can weigh more than a thousand pounds… are bulky, LOUD, and require a large air compressor to help recover the gas… So in my opinion, if you don’t have someone with millions of dollars behind you, the cost of C02 machine alone will prohibit most would be extractors from getting started, not to mention the space required to fit the machines and all the accessories that make it work, AND many of these machines require 3 Phase power, which is not available everywhere, and may cost you thousands of dollars just to have the power company come put it in … And on top of all that you still have to put together the rest of the Lab, your gonna need #1 a Vacuum oven, #2 distillation setup, #3 all necessary glassware, heating mantles, stands, jacks, etc…. All of that can cost you a few thousand more on top of the CO2 machine itself… Is butane dangerous, YES, is C02 dangerous, YES, we all know why butane is, so let me tell you why C02 is as well. Can you imagine a part failure at over 1000psi even a simple hose blowing off and whipping around the room could be enough to seriously injure or even kill someone… a leaky C02 tank will not create an explosion hazard but will displace the oxygen in the area making a hazardous breathing environment for everyone nearby, odorless and colorless you may not even know you had a leak… there are leak detectors for both C02 and Butane, and they should be used no matter which way you decide to go… In conclusion, if you are a diehard solvent-less guy with millions of dollars at your disposal than by all means get your C02 on !!! For the rest of us getting by paycheck to paycheck, we like our “Tane” Quick, Easy, low start up costs, easy to purge, great tasting, high quality, short recovery times even in a passive system, and as long as you are using a “well made Closed Loop system” and you are using it ” CORRECTLY” they do have a high margin of safety !!! Reply
I would like to start by stating that I’m a veteran refrigeration technician with almost 20 years experience working with solvents including refrigerant, hydrocarbons, ammonia and carbon dioxide. Hydrocarbons are only dangerous (and potentially explosive) when handled incorrectly, if SOPs are not followed or you just do something stupid. Hydrocarbons are used as safe refrigerant all the time with no fires or explosions. Carbon dioxide if used incorrectly, if SOPs are not followed or you just do something stupid have the potential to cause a MUCH greater bodily harm and destruction of property. First carbon dioxide is a serious asphyxiation hazard and has inadvertently hospitalized and killed thousands annually (Google it). And the more concerning issue is that if a super critical or sub critical fluid extractor is used incorrectly, SOPs are not followed or you just do something stupid there is a serious explosion hazard that can dismember and kill you. These machines operate at extremely high pressures (between 800psi to over 5000psi) at that pressure even a small leak that releases nothing but carbon dioxide could sever flesh and cause dismemberment. No other solvent operates at these pressures and in my industry there is a lot of hesitation to adopt carbon dioxide as a standard solely because of this fact. Now all that being said I enjoy many different types of concentrates including CO2, BHO, PHO, RSO and a few made from solvents long since abandoned due to manufacturing dangers. My personal favorite is made with a refrigerant blend commonly used in transport refrigeration ( I.e. semi truck trailers). Also I would like to add a question to all those long time smokers of cannabis. With all the concern over residual butane (let’s say 300ppm) that is flash vaporized during dabbing, has any one considered how much butane is inhaled during the use of a BIC lighter during smoking flower? Just saying… Reply
“Patients are potentially smoking water into their lungs which could result in pneumonia” Really? So breathing a little steam vapor causes pneumonia. Funny. There’s no scientific literature I can find that even hints at this absurd statement. Oh, and I love the line about how our food supply is polluted with solvent residues already so that justifies using butane as an extraction solvent. Pathetic article. Reply
Great article! So many have been stuck trying to meet the ROI many CO2 extractor companies represent. I would add that while hydrocarbons are most used solvent type, many of them used in food oil processes are very hard to remove completely. FDA allows hexane(s) residuals (YUK!). The beauty of butane is it is very easy to compress and remove completely from an extraction, with a fraction of the energy inputs for evaporating solvents like hexane. Most all of the traditional hydrocarbon methods subject the product to heat during removal of solvent. The cannabis community has embraced the fact that butane can be used as a solvent below the temp which water freezes. I can see Butane extractions replacing many CO2 processes. The newest systems for BHO take advantage of Butane’s wide temp range as it is compressed and expanded, lending even more safety and efficiency to the process. CO2 (especially supercritical) will not scale as efficiently as Butane. mark my words ~ Dr.Terp Reply
Hello, I’m new here,and wondering if someone from here is familiar with granddaddy og marijuana seeds..?? Reply
Any chance someone’s taken a stab at cost/benefit analysis for these extraction methods? Which yields the highest ROI? Also, doesn’t rosin press constitute an extraction method? Does it warrant a mention? Reply
Does the extraction process damage the building and the equipment in the kitchen and dish washing rooms (example: if it was a restaurant)? If I have questions, can someone please call me. I will message a number when contacted. Reply
There is another way to extract using water that people aren’t talking about cause it’s cheap and equipment manufactures can’t make money from it. It uses nothing more than commercially available food processing equipment. Stop getting fleeced by unqualified medicinal chemists with no real world experience in process development or manufacturing. Those that don’t discover the cheapest way of doing things will get left behind…… [email protected] Reply